Discussion:
Lawrence of Arabia question
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Howard Brazee
2009-04-23 23:41:44 UTC
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I've had a question for years.

In Lawrence of Arabia, Lawrence talks to his superior about his
feelings when he shot that Arab he saved earlier.

His superior starts to assume something, Lawrence says something like
"not that", then there is a second guess, with the same response.

What were those first two guesses? I have no idea.
Jim Nason
2009-04-24 15:54:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard Brazee
I've had a question for years.
In Lawrence of Arabia, Lawrence talks to his superior about his
feelings when he shot that Arab he saved earlier.
His superior starts to assume something, Lawrence says something like
"not that", then there is a second guess, with the same response.
What were those first two guesses? I have no idea.
From memory: Lawrence had said something like "There was something about it
I didn't like." Allenby replies, "Well, naturally." Lawrence says, "Not
that." He then says, "I enjoyed it." As I said, from memory. Disturbing
scene.

Jim Nason
Okierazorbacker
2009-04-24 16:43:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Nason
From memory: Lawrence had said something like "There was something about it
I didn't like." Allenby replies, "Well, naturally." Lawrence says, "Not
that." He then says, "I enjoyed it." As I said, from memory. Disturbing
scene.
Lawrence was a fascinating, disturbed, conflicted character in that
film. Hints at homosexual, sadomasochistic, and power-abuse
tendencies......and sometimes much more than just hints. Yet he truly
wanted to benefit the Arabs. Amazing portrayal of an amazing
character in an amazing movie; he questioned and doubted himself, yet
was romantic and dramatic enough to allow himself to be put on a
pedestal as a focal point to lead their revolution, perhaps partially
in an attempt to assuage his own insecurities.

Remarkable story. Wonder how much of it is true!
Pjk
2009-04-24 16:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Okierazorbacker
Post by Jim Nason
From memory: Lawrence had said something like "There was something about it
I didn't like." Allenby replies, "Well, naturally." Lawrence says, "Not
that." He then says, "I enjoyed it." As I said, from memory. Disturbing
scene.
Lawrence was a fascinating, disturbed, conflicted character in that
film.  Hints at homosexual, sadomasochistic, and power-abuse
tendencies......and sometimes much more than just hints.  Yet he truly
wanted to benefit the Arabs.  Amazing portrayal of an amazing
character in an amazing movie; he questioned and doubted himself, yet
was romantic and dramatic enough to allow himself to be put on a
pedestal as a focal point to lead their revolution, perhaps partially
in an attempt to assuage his own insecurities.
Remarkable story.  Wonder how much of it is true!
A Prince of Our Disorder is a good but difficult psychological
biography of Lawrence.Most any of the others are OK biographiocal
biographies.

I always thought that line harkens back to the beginning with the
matches. "The trick is not bothering about the pain."

Pjk
Howard Brazee
2009-04-24 23:48:34 UTC
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Post by Pjk
I always thought that line harkens back to the beginning with the
matches. "The trick is not bothering about the pain."
I love that scene. Even though I am not a masochist, I agree that
sometimes the trick is to not mind pain.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison
Howard Brazee
2009-04-24 23:47:22 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:43:07 -0700 (PDT), Okierazorbacker
Post by Okierazorbacker
Lawrence was a fascinating, disturbed, conflicted character in that
film. Hints at homosexual, sadomasochistic, and power-abuse
tendencies......and sometimes much more than just hints. Yet he truly
wanted to benefit the Arabs. Amazing portrayal of an amazing
character in an amazing movie; he questioned and doubted himself, yet
was romantic and dramatic enough to allow himself to be put on a
pedestal as a focal point to lead their revolution, perhaps partially
in an attempt to assuage his own insecurities.
Remarkable story. Wonder how much of it is true!
Read _Seven Pillars of Wisdom_. It's a fascinating book.
--
"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
than in the clause which confides the question of war or peace
to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

- James Madison
Okierazorbacker
2009-04-25 00:59:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard Brazee
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 09:43:07 -0700 (PDT), Okierazorbacker
Post by Okierazorbacker
Remarkable story.  Wonder how much of it is true!
Read _Seven Pillars of Wisdom_.   It's a fascinating book.
Again, I wonder how much of it is true. By all accounts he was quite
the self-promoter.
tomcervo
2009-04-25 03:23:10 UTC
Permalink
Remarkable story. �Wonder how much of it is true!
Read _Seven Pillars of Wisdom_. � It's a fascinating book.
Again, I wonder how much of it is true. �By all accounts he was quite
the self-promoter.
Jeremy Wilson (I think) was the authorized biographer, meaning he had
full access to the family papers; he also dug up the declassified
intelligence reports. He said that whereever Lawrence's official
reports could be compared to other accounts, they were very accurate.
His personal accounts of his private thoughts and actions are harder
to judge, but look up his own account of the charge at Aqaba--a funny
thing for a braggart to write.
Wilson also praises the psychological penetration of the Bolt
screenplay, written with almost no access to most of the material now
available.
Pjk
2009-04-25 17:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomcervo
Remarkable story. Wonder how much of it is true!
Read _Seven Pillars of Wisdom_. It's a fascinating book.
Again, I wonder how much of it is true. By all accounts he was quite
the self-promoter.
Jeremy Wilson (I think) was the authorized biographer, meaning he had
full access to the family papers; he also dug up the declassified
intelligence reports. He said that whereever Lawrence's official
reports could be compared to other accounts, they were very accurate.
His personal accounts of his private thoughts and actions are harder
to judge, but look up his own account of the charge at Aqaba--a funny
thing for a braggart to write.
Wilson also praises the psychological penetration of the Bolt
screenplay, written with almost no access to most of the material now
available.
After his expiriences in the desert he enlisted in the fledgling air
corps under a different name so as not to be recognized. Lawrence has
to be one of the more interesting, and written about, people who
didn't actually do very much. *Somebody* agrandized his life.

Pjk
tomcervo
2009-04-26 04:02:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pjk
Post by tomcervo
Remarkable story. Wonder how much of it is true!
Read _Seven Pillars of Wisdom_. It's a fascinating book.
Again, I wonder how much of it is true. By all accounts he was quite
the self-promoter.
Jeremy Wilson (I think) was the authorized biographer, meaning he had
full access to the family papers; he also dug up the declassified
intelligence reports. He said that whereever Lawrence's official
reports could be compared to other accounts, they were very accurate.
His personal accounts of his private thoughts and actions are harder
to judge, but look up his own account of the charge at Aqaba--a funny
thing for a braggart to write.
Wilson also praises the psychological penetration of the Bolt
screenplay, written with almost no access to most of the material now
available.
After his expiriences in the desert he enlisted in the fledgling air
corps under a different name so as not to be recognized. Lawrence has
to be one of the more interesting, and written about, people who
didn't actually do very much. *Somebody* agrandized his life.
Well actually, not long after the Great War he went back to the Middle
East and helped draw the lines for the new nations that emerged from
the Ottoman Empire--one of them, Iraq, was given to his friend Feisal
to rule. After doing his best to set things right for the Arabs to
whom he had promised so much, he went back to England, wrote his
memoirs, and decided to get lost. That didn't mean, as it did with a
good many vets, crawl into a bottle, but hiding out in the Royal Air
Force. There he busied himself working on high-speed launches for air-
sea rescue--the boats Britain used in WW2 had their roots in his
experiments. In his off time he translated The Odyssey into prose. He
died in a motorcycle accident at 47 years.
And when you reach that age, drop us a line and let us know all that
YOU have done.
Okierazorbacker
2009-04-26 04:27:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomcervo
And when you reach that age, drop us a line and let us know all that
YOU have done.
Um....I know how to type..... <gulp>
Pjk
2009-04-27 16:18:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by tomcervo
And when you reach that age, drop us a line and let us know all that
YOU have done.
Um....I know how to type.....  <gulp>
And *I've* made it to 60 ...so far!

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Pjk

F***@live.com
2009-04-25 22:51:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Howard Brazee
I've had a question for years.
In Lawrence of Arabia, Lawrence talks to his superior about his
feelings when he shot that Arab he saved earlier.
His superior starts to assume something, Lawrence says something like
"not that", then there is a second guess, with the same response.
What were those first two guesses? I have no idea.
If he found in himself predisposed to an affinity for harsh justice,
an unusual point is also taking on added duty, an obscure imperative
the Turkish camp held in store. Was there compelling tactical
significance to his doing so... crossing over into indignity he
presumes to suffer there, at the hands of Turks, for anything but more
than avid willingness to somehow prophetize his worthiness -- Allah
permitted he survive, to further decimate and wreck vengeful
retribution, twice, on already defeated Turks. Spilling every last
drop into sacrificial sands traditions follows by links to epic
battles and glorious congenial prose depicting a likes of collective
ears piled on high, in mounds the vanquished incur, for all to see.
Thereupon, for conquering saviors to unleash a pet lion, or two,
freely to feast and relish over, in courses due and just, as are all
goodly dieties favored so naturally to bestow the chosen quite willful
means withal.
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