Discussion:
Irene Dunne question
(too old to reply)
Bob Champ
2004-07-21 06:27:46 UTC
Permalink
Did Irene Dunne do all her own singing in "Roberta" or was she just
lip-synching for someone else? I had never heard before that she was a
singer.

Bob Champ
Tony Spadaro
2004-07-21 06:54:16 UTC
Permalink
She was a singer and I doubt she was ever dubbed.
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Post by Bob Champ
Did Irene Dunne do all her own singing in "Roberta" or was she just
lip-synching for someone else? I had never heard before that she was a
singer.
Bob Champ
Norma Bates
2004-07-21 08:18:42 UTC
Permalink
Irene Dunne was indeed a singer. An excellent one. In fact, she was
one of the most astonishing actresses of all time. I cannot think of
another with her incredible range of performances.
Post by Bob Champ
Did Irene Dunne do all her own singing in "Roberta" or was she just
lip-synching for someone else? I had never heard before that she was a
singer.
Bob Champ
George Shelps
2004-07-21 23:08:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norma Bates
Irene Dunne was indeed a singer. An
excellent one. In fact, she was one of the
most astonishing actresses of all time. I
cannot think of another with her
incredible range of performances.
Quite true! But Dunne was a Republican'
activist (she retired to go to work for
the Eisenhower Administration) and
so she tends to be ignored by movie
historians. Same for Robert Montgomery, another under-appreciated
versatile performer.









__________________________________


"The past is never dead. It's not even past."
__William Faulkner =
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-07-21 23:42:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Shelps
Post by Norma Bates
Irene Dunne was indeed a singer. An
excellent one. In fact, she was one of the
most astonishing actresses of all time. I
cannot think of another with her
incredible range of performances.
Quite true! But Dunne was a Republican'
activist (she retired to go to work for
the Eisenhower Administration) and
so she tends to be ignored by movie
historians. Same for Robert Montgomery, another
under-appreciated versatile performer.
Piffle.

Dunne's best films were frequently suppressed by the studio in the face of
remakes, a formerly common practice. For example _Cimmaron_, _Magnificent
Obsession_ and _Roberta_ disappeared after their original releases. Of
course, the latter film was largely stolen by Fred and Ginger. Likewise,
_Showboat_ was withdrawn when it was remade. _Theodora Goes Wild_ never made
it to TV until the 70s. She got five Oscar nominations but no Oscar and no
life-time-achievement Oscar either, which is further evidence of the whimsy
of AMPAS. She retired from the films when she felt it was time to go.
Thereafter, she confined herself to politics, philanthropy, TV guest shots,
and the board of Technicolor. Her fame was revived in the 70s by the AFI and
the LA County Art Museum. Late in life she was accorded the Kennedy Center
Honors.
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"










__________________________________


"The past is never dead. It's not even past."
__William Faulkner
George Shelps
2004-07-22 03:24:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
But Dunne was a Republican' activist
(she retired to go to work for
the Eisenhower Administration) and
so she tends to be ignored by movie
historians. =A0 Same for Robert
Montgomery, another
under-appreciated versatile performer.
Piffle.
Every five minutes there's a new bio
or memoir about Katharine Hepburn
but virtually nothing on Dunne.

Nor on Montgomery.









__________________________________


"The past is never dead. It's not even past."
__William Faulkner =
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-07-22 18:12:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Shelps
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
But Dunne was a Republican' activist
(she retired to go to work for
the Eisenhower Administration) and
so she tends to be ignored by movie
historians. Same for Robert
Montgomery, another
under-appreciated versatile performer.
Piffle.
Every five minutes there's a new bio
or memoir about Katharine Hepburn
but virtually nothing on Dunne.
Nor on Montgomery.
And that proves your assertion about her politics condemining her legacy how
exactly? I have already written about her post-film career and her
rehabilitation in the 70s.

One of the reasons that Hepburn solicits more interest today is that she
continued working well into her very old age, giving boomers a chance to
know her, that and the romance of her love affair with Tracy which makes her
a natural for all kinds of commentators.

I myself am not that fond of Robert Montgomery; there is something vaguely
off-putting him even in enjoyable films like _Here Comes Mr. Jordan_, a film
so successful that references to "Mr. Jordan" abound in the popular culture
of the 40s. I think Montgomery wisely decided to step behind the camera in
the latter part of his career. I'm afraid, however, that decision is largely
the reason why for most boomers his major claim to fame is going to be as
the father of Elizabeth Montgomery of "Bewitched" fame.

There are plenty of stars from the 30s and 40s who are neglected today. Are
they all victims of some liberal conspiracy?
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
Norma Bates
2004-07-23 07:24:28 UTC
Permalink
One of Robert Montgomery's first (if not actually his first) films
also contains what may be his most astonishing performance. Watch him
play off Rosalind Russell and Dame May Whitty in "Night Must Fall."
He's absolutely charming -- and chilling. Sadly, to my knowledge, he
never stretched like this in any role again.

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 11:12:18 -0700, "Frank R.A.J. Maloney"
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by George Shelps
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
But Dunne was a Republican' activist
(she retired to go to work for
the Eisenhower Administration) and
so she tends to be ignored by movie
historians. Same for Robert
Montgomery, another
under-appreciated versatile performer.
Piffle.
Every five minutes there's a new bio
or memoir about Katharine Hepburn
but virtually nothing on Dunne.
Nor on Montgomery.
And that proves your assertion about her politics condemining her legacy how
exactly? I have already written about her post-film career and her
rehabilitation in the 70s.
One of the reasons that Hepburn solicits more interest today is that she
continued working well into her very old age, giving boomers a chance to
know her, that and the romance of her love affair with Tracy which makes her
a natural for all kinds of commentators.
I myself am not that fond of Robert Montgomery; there is something vaguely
off-putting him even in enjoyable films like _Here Comes Mr. Jordan_, a film
so successful that references to "Mr. Jordan" abound in the popular culture
of the 40s. I think Montgomery wisely decided to step behind the camera in
the latter part of his career. I'm afraid, however, that decision is largely
the reason why for most boomers his major claim to fame is going to be as
the father of Elizabeth Montgomery of "Bewitched" fame.
There are plenty of stars from the 30s and 40s who are neglected today. Are
they all victims of some liberal conspiracy?
George Shelps
2004-07-23 03:03:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by George Shelps
Every five minutes there's a new bio
or memoir about Katharine Hepburn
but virtually nothing on Dunne.
Nor on Montgomery.
And that proves your assertion about her
politics condemining her legacy how
exactly?
Authors repeat over and over
about Hepburn's mother supporting
Margaret Sanger and portray KH
admiringly as a New England liberal and "free-thinker."

By contrast, Dunne lived a quiet
life in Holmby Hills, was married
to one man for decades, was a devout
Roman Catholic. and worked for Ike.
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
I have already written about her
post-film career and her rehabilitation in
the 70s.
Her "rehabilitation" hardly matches
her merit as a performer.
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
There are plenty of stars from the 30s
and 40s who are neglected today. Are
they all victims of some liberal
conspiracy?
Dunne and Montgomery are.









__________________________________


"The past is never dead. It's not even past."
__William Faulkner =
gggg gggg
2021-08-03 04:43:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by Norma Bates
Irene Dunne was indeed a singer. An
excellent one. In fact, she was one of the
most astonishing actresses of all time. I
cannot think of another with her
incredible range of performances.
Quite true! But Dunne was a Republican'
activist (she retired to go to work for
the Eisenhower Administration) and
so she tends to be ignored by movie
historians. Same for Robert Montgomery, another
under-appreciated versatile performer.
Piffle.
Dunne's best films were frequently suppressed by the studio in the face of
remakes, a formerly common practice. For example _Cimmaron_, _Magnificent
Obsession_ and _Roberta_ disappeared after their original releases. Of
course, the latter film was largely stolen by Fred and Ginger. Likewise,
_Showboat_ was withdrawn when it was remade. _Theodora Goes Wild_ never made
it to TV until the 70s. She got five Oscar nominations but no Oscar and no
life-time-achievement Oscar either, which is further evidence of the whimsy
of AMPAS. She retired from the films when she felt it was time to go.
Thereafter, she confined herself to politics, philanthropy, TV guest shots,
and the board of Technicolor. Her fame was revived in the 70s by the AFI and
the LA County Art Museum. Late in life she was accorded the Kennedy Center
Honors.
(Youtube upload):

Kennedy Center honors 1985 Tribute to Irene Dunne
John Doe
2021-08-03 14:01:51 UTC
Permalink
Google Groups idiot...
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Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by Norma Bates
Irene Dunne was indeed a singer. An
excellent one. In fact, she was one of the
most astonishing actresses of all time. I
cannot think of another with her
incredible range of performances.
Quite true! But Dunne was a Republican'
activist (she retired to go to work for
the Eisenhower Administration) and
so she tends to be ignored by movie
historians. Same for Robert Montgomery, another
under-appreciated versatile performer.
Piffle.
Dunne's best films were frequently suppressed by the studio in the face of
remakes, a formerly common practice. For example _Cimmaron_, _Magnificent
Obsession_ and _Roberta_ disappeared after their original releases. Of
course, the latter film was largely stolen by Fred and Ginger. Likewise,
_Showboat_ was withdrawn when it was remade. _Theodora Goes Wild_ never made
it to TV until the 70s. She got five Oscar nominations but no Oscar and no
life-time-achievement Oscar either, which is further evidence of the whimsy
of AMPAS. She retired from the films when she felt it was time to go.
Thereafter, she confined herself to politics, philanthropy, TV guest shots,
and the board of Technicolor. Her fame was revived in the 70s by the AFI and
the LA County Art Museum. Late in life she was accorded the Kennedy Center
Honors.
Kennedy Center honors 1985 Tribute to Irene Dunne
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-07-21 17:00:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Champ
Did Irene Dunne do all her own singing in "Roberta" or was she just
lip-synching for someone else? I had never heard before that she was a
singer.
As the others have said, she only lip-synched her own voice in _Roberta_,
_Show Boat_, and _The Awful Truth_ (where she gives an excruciatingly funny
performance of "My Dreams Are Gone With the Wind"). She studied voice and
piano as a teenager, got a scholarship to study at the Chicago Music
College, and auditioned unsuccessfully for the Metropolitan Opera Company in
New York. She did appear in musical comedy on Broadway in the 20s and played
Magnolia Hawks in the road company of "Show Boat". Her first film was an
all-talking, all-singing, part-color musical at RKO, _Rubbernecking_.
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
d***@DROPsocal.rr.com
2004-07-21 17:20:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
As the others have said, she only lip-synched her own voice in _Roberta_,
_Show Boat_, and _The Awful Truth_ (where she gives an excruciatingly funny
performance of "My Dreams Are Gone With the Wind").
One of the many, many great moments in "The Awful Truth" -- that, &
Joyce Compton's equally riotous performance of the same number.
W. Lydecker
2004-07-21 17:38:01 UTC
Permalink
I rather liked the duet with the guy that looked like Ralph Bellamy.
p.s. Since Dunne done Anna and the King of Siam, how come she didn't do
The King And I? Or did she?
Norma Bates
2004-07-23 07:19:41 UTC
Permalink
Irene was a wee bit to "mature" by the time "King and I" was produced.
Deborah Kerr was, as always, incredible in that role -- and every
other one she played. (See her in "The Innocents" if you want an
unforgettable lesson in what film acting is all about.)

Miss Kerr's voice was dubbed by the wondrous Marni Nixon (who also
dubbed Natalie Wood's vocals in "West Side Story," Audrey Hepburn's in
"My Fair Lady," etc.

Incidentally, I once was Miss Nixon live in a cabaret performance in
Hollywood. Beautiful voice. Lovely to look at. No charisma whatsoever.
Proof of something, I guess. I'm grateful she had the career she did,
though.
Post by W. Lydecker
I rather liked the duet with the guy that looked like Ralph Bellamy.
p.s. Since Dunne done Anna and the King of Siam, how come she didn't do
The King And I? Or did she?
W. Lydecker
2004-07-23 15:59:35 UTC
Permalink
Norma(l) Bates stated: "Irene was a wee bit to "mature" by the time
"King and I" was produced."
############################### < Speaking of the Theatah > Hmm,
things sure have changed in the Rodgers and Hammerstein world. We had
Glenn Close playing the South Pacific ingenue role on Broadway. Why not
Irene from THE KING and I?. Since this is hardly an ingenue role.
Brent McKee
2004-07-24 08:59:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by W. Lydecker
Norma(l) Bates stated: "Irene was a wee bit to "mature" by the time
"King and I" was produced."
############################### < Speaking of the Theatah >
Hmm,
Post by W. Lydecker
things sure have changed in the Rodgers and Hammerstein world. We had
Glenn Close playing the South Pacific ingenue role on Broadway. Why not
Irene from THE KING and I?. Since this is hardly an ingenue role.
But there has to be some plausible attraction on a romantic level
between Anna and the King even though it is never acted on. At the
time that "The King and I" was released, Deborah Kerr was 35, while
Irene Dunne was 58. Of course that was older than Glenn Close was
when she played Nellie Forbush -- but not by much. That said, I think
Glenn Close was too old to play Nellie, but then I wouldn't have cast
her in the role even twenty years ago because I find her all right but
not _that_ attractive.
--
Brent McKee

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"If we cease to judge this world, we may find ourselves, very quickly,
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openness to novelty. "
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jayembee
2004-07-24 14:16:22 UTC
Permalink
At the time that "The King and I" was released, Deborah
Kerr was 35, while Irene Dunne was 58. Of course that was
older than Glenn Close was when she played Nellie Forbush
-- but not by much. That said, I think Glenn Close was
too old to play Nellie, but then I wouldn't have cast her
in the role even twenty years ago because I find her all
right but not _that_ attractive.
(1) Why does Nellie have to be "*that* attractive"?

(2) I haven't seen Close play the part on stage, but I did
see the TV-movie version with her. And while she was most
definitely too old for the part physically, I thought she
did a wonderful job of *acting* like she was 20.

-- jayembee
W. Lydecker
2004-07-24 16:13:03 UTC
Permalink
Why does a stage Anna have to be "young"?. Dunne already had a
voice.
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-07-24 17:06:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by W. Lydecker
Why does a stage Anna have to be "young"?. Dunne already had a
voice.
For one, the actress -- whoever she might be -- has to survive the "Shall We
Dance?" number.

For another, singing voices do not improve with age.
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
W. Lydecker
2004-07-24 18:34:14 UTC
Permalink
Etc. etc. etcetra!
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-07-25 17:18:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by W. Lydecker
Etc. etc. etcetra!
But flower must not never fly from bee to bee to bee.
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-07-23 17:39:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norma Bates
Irene was a wee bit to "mature" by the time "King and I" was produced.
Deborah Kerr was, as always, incredible in that role -- and every
other one she played. (See her in "The Innocents" if you want an
unforgettable lesson in what film acting is all about.)
[deletions]

A favorite Deborah Kerr moment for me comes in _The Night of the Iguana_
(1964) when her character Hannah Jelkes describes her one "sexual
experience", a riveting, funny, sad, and disturbing story that ends with
Miss Jelkes saying, "Nothing human disgusts me, Mr. Shannon, unless it's
unkind, violent."
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
Norma Bates
2004-07-23 20:06:37 UTC
Permalink
Ah, "Night of the Iguana." Just saw it again recently on TCM. What a
crapload. Except for Deborah Kerr, as usual. She was the only
believable thing in it. Another beautiful performance. As for bloated
Richard Burton, chewing the scenery and waiting to get back to
drinking with La Liz, and poor Ava Gardner -- whose entire performance
consists of keeping her chin as high as she can get it so her
double-chin won't show in profiles, and the ungodly Sue Lyons -- who
hasn't a clue what to do with her face, her hands, her voice or her
body -- the less said, the better.

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 10:39:13 -0700, "Frank R.A.J. Maloney"
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by Norma Bates
Irene was a wee bit to "mature" by the time "King and I" was produced.
Deborah Kerr was, as always, incredible in that role -- and every
other one she played. (See her in "The Innocents" if you want an
unforgettable lesson in what film acting is all about.)
[deletions]
A favorite Deborah Kerr moment for me comes in _The Night of the Iguana_
(1964) when her character Hannah Jelkes describes her one "sexual
experience", a riveting, funny, sad, and disturbing story that ends with
Miss Jelkes saying, "Nothing human disgusts me, Mr. Shannon, unless it's
unkind, violent."
Norma Bates
2004-07-23 07:12:40 UTC
Permalink
Just as a point of reference, EVERYBODY lip-synchs their own voice in
films -- those who can sing, that is. Even Babs in "Hello Dolly" et
al. Even Judy in "Wizard of Oz," et al.

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 10:00:52 -0700, "Frank R.A.J. Maloney"
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by Bob Champ
Did Irene Dunne do all her own singing in "Roberta" or was she just
lip-synching for someone else? I had never heard before that she was a
singer.
As the others have said, she only lip-synched her own voice in _Roberta_,
_Show Boat_, and _The Awful Truth_ (where she gives an excruciatingly funny
performance of "My Dreams Are Gone With the Wind"). She studied voice and
piano as a teenager, got a scholarship to study at the Chicago Music
College, and auditioned unsuccessfully for the Metropolitan Opera Company in
New York. She did appear in musical comedy on Broadway in the 20s and played
Magnolia Hawks in the road company of "Show Boat". Her first film was an
all-talking, all-singing, part-color musical at RKO, _Rubbernecking_.
Bob Champ
2004-07-22 20:16:58 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for everyone for all the information on Irene Dunne!!!

Bob Champ
Post by Bob Champ
Did Irene Dunne do all her own singing in "Roberta" or was she just
lip-synching for someone else? I had never heard before that she was a
singer.
Bob Champ
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