Discussion:
best use of classical music in movie?
(too old to reply)
Goy Liath
2004-09-22 03:12:05 UTC
Permalink
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).

1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
herothatdied
2004-09-22 04:00:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
Platoon - Barber's "Adagio for Strings in D Minor" was used quite well
there, I think. I'll put in a vote for two Woody Allen movies - Love and
Death uses Prokofiev delightfully, (I can say with certainty that it wasn't
composed for the movie, seeing as how the movie was made more than twenty
years after Prokofiev's death) and there's a bit in Hannah and Her Sisters
where Sam Waterston is taking Carrie Fisher and Dianne Wiest for an
architectural tour of New York (and how many movies stop for an
architectural tour?) where the overture to Madame Butterfly is used to
excellent effect. Which reminds me that I shouldn't forget Moonstruck: La
Boheme playing, snow falling and Nicholas Cage saying that the purpose of
life is to love the wrong people - every time I see that I can't help
craning my neck, wondering when I'll meet Mr. Passionate Wrong. Maybe if I
wasn't so sure that he looks just like Nicholas Cage... - htd
Tony
2004-09-22 06:46:56 UTC
Permalink
In some ways one might say that Richard Addison had teh best use of
classical music in the movies when his Score for "Dangerous Moonlight"
became a standard on classical radio as The Warsaw Concerto.
I think my favourite is the movie that got me into Bach at a very young
age "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea". I remember shoveling snow that winter to
buy an album with the Toccata and fugue in D minor. The first one I bought
had the wrong D minor (the Dorian) but I wasn't complaining. From there I
went on to the Brandenburgs and -- etc. etc. etc.
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Post by herothatdied
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
Platoon - Barber's "Adagio for Strings in D Minor" was used quite well
there, I think. I'll put in a vote for two Woody Allen movies - Love and
Death uses Prokofiev delightfully, (I can say with certainty that it wasn't
composed for the movie, seeing as how the movie was made more than twenty
years after Prokofiev's death) and there's a bit in Hannah and Her Sisters
where Sam Waterston is taking Carrie Fisher and Dianne Wiest for an
architectural tour of New York (and how many movies stop for an
architectural tour?) where the overture to Madame Butterfly is used to
excellent effect. Which reminds me that I shouldn't forget Moonstruck: La
Boheme playing, snow falling and Nicholas Cage saying that the purpose of
life is to love the wrong people - every time I see that I can't help
craning my neck, wondering when I'll meet Mr. Passionate Wrong. Maybe if I
wasn't so sure that he looks just like Nicholas Cage... - htd
Calvin Rice
2004-09-22 12:49:15 UTC
Permalink
... I think my favourite is the movie that got me into Bach at a very young
age "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea". ...
The movie that got me into both classical music and movie music at the same
time was 'Story of Three Loves' in 1953. The music was Rachmaninoff's
18th Variation from the Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini. Speaking of
Rachmaninoff, a great use of classical music in a movie was his Third Piano
Concerto, in the movie 'Shine'. That piece is part of the plot of the
movie, involved in the story's turning point.

-cr
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-09-22 17:37:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Calvin Rice
... I think my favourite is the movie that got me into Bach at a very young
age "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea". ...
The movie that got me into both classical music and movie music at the same
time was 'Story of Three Loves' in 1953. The music was Rachmaninoff's
18th Variation from the Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini. Speaking of
Rachmaninoff, a great use of classical music in a movie was his Third Piano
Concerto, in the movie 'Shine'. That piece is part of the plot of the
movie, involved in the story's turning point.
For me it was a theatrical revival of _Fantasia_ in the 1956s that got me
started. I left the theater and went directly to the record store and bought
my first LPs -- themselves a fairly new format -- "Nutcracker Suite" (Arthur
Fielder, Boston Pops), "A Night on Bare Mountain", and Beethoven's Symphony
No. 6 "Pastoral". I just ignored the others.

(I didn't turn on to the Bach Toccata and Fugue until I was a moody college
student and discovered E. Power Biggs.)
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
James Kahn
2004-09-22 17:52:39 UTC
Permalink
The scene in the middle of "The Deer Hunter", just before they
cut to Vietnam, where one of the buddies sits down at an old
piano in a bar and plays part of a Chopin Nocturne. A poignant
and haunting moment, like the last gasp of civilization before
all hell breaks loose.
--
Jim
New York, NY
(Please remove "nospam." to get my e-mail address)
http://www.panix.com/~kahn
francis muir
2004-09-22 20:33:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Kahn
The scene in the middle of "The Deer Hunter", just before they
cut to Vietnam, where one of the buddies sits down at an old
piano in a bar and plays part of a Chopin Nocturne. A poignant
and haunting moment, like the last gasp of civilization before
all hell breaks loose.
You mean you didn't prefer my Balliol roomie's *Sonatina*
that was a feature of the film? Stanley Myers who has a
number of interesting films to his credit (check out imdb.com)
but, alas, died just before the final cut of *Middlemarch*.
Perhaps one of his last works was a setting of one of Sor
Ines de la Cruz' poems that he did for me as part of a bundle
of entertainments that I sent to a young cousin of mine.
Joe Green's several poems were other items in the hamper.
Johnd Fstone
2004-09-22 20:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
For me it was a theatrical revival of _Fantasia_ in the 1956s that
got me started. I left the theater and went directly to the record
store and bought my first LPs -- themselves a fairly new format --
"Nutcracker Suite" (Arthur Fielder, Boston Pops), "A Night on Bare
Mountain", and Beethoven's Symphony No. 6 "Pastoral". I just ignored
the others.
But the best use of "Ivanova noch' na Lisoy gore" (googling "ivanova
noch'" returns Germans talking about "BABYLON 5") is in PSYCHED BY THE
4D WITCH (A TALE OF DEMONOLOGY) (Victor Luminera, 1972, USA). The
sound track is a mixture of stock classical music and psychedelic
rock. It's impossible to guess from the soft-porn light show on
screen what inappropriate music track will haltingly start next.

[...]
--
Have you ever seen a Neanderthal reading a Physics book, or a horse,
or a clam? -- George Hammond
Tony
2004-09-22 22:04:30 UTC
Permalink
I've maintained Biggs back recordings since my twenties also - they are now
CDs so I doubt I'll ever have to replace them again. But I also like the
firey and erratic Virgil Fox, Marie Clair Alain, and a few others - yeah
I've got a lot of Bach organ stuff around.
I came up with Night on Bald Mountain and Rites of Spring from
Fantasia -- didn't know the titles but over time figured them out and got
the records. This was before Bach was played on classical radio, and the
Bach in Fantasia was that dead awful orchestration - it still sets my teeth
on edge.
Until a fire got it in 1978 I held on to my very first classical record. I
found it in the attic when I was about five - In a Persian Garden played on
the Mighty Wirlitzer of Radio City - a twelve inch seventy-eight. Later I
became the kid to givve your old 78s too among my family and in my
neighbourhood. I had albums of stuff like Act II of Rigoletto -- that was
several 12 inch disks! One apparently bought Operas one act at a time. My
first Beethovan's 9th was on about 8 or so records but a few were broke when
I got it.
Along with classical I got into Swing, Dixieland, Torch Singers, and
Boogie Woogie - to say nothing of oddities like the Bell Sisters and Larry
Vincent. The Gene Autrys I got went to my brother who was into them.
--
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home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
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A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
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Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by Calvin Rice
... I think my favourite is the movie that got me into Bach at a very young
age "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea". ...
The movie that got me into both classical music and movie music at the same
time was 'Story of Three Loves' in 1953. The music was Rachmaninoff's
18th Variation from the Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini. Speaking of
Rachmaninoff, a great use of classical music in a movie was his Third Piano
Concerto, in the movie 'Shine'. That piece is part of the plot of the
movie, involved in the story's turning point.
For me it was a theatrical revival of _Fantasia_ in the 1956s that got me
started. I left the theater and went directly to the record store and bought
my first LPs -- themselves a fairly new format -- "Nutcracker Suite" (Arthur
Fielder, Boston Pops), "A Night on Bare Mountain", and Beethoven's Symphony
No. 6 "Pastoral". I just ignored the others.
(I didn't turn on to the Bach Toccata and Fugue until I was a moody college
student and discovered E. Power Biggs.)
--
Frank in Seattle
___________
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
ToolPackinMama
2004-09-22 22:13:50 UTC
Permalink
I think the best use of classical music in movies is in the classic
Looney Toons shorts. Lots of kids and adults never would have been
exposed to classical music at all if not for those cartoons.

Think: "What's Opera, Doc?" I'm sure you see my point.
Stephen Cooke
2004-09-22 23:18:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by ToolPackinMama
I think the best use of classical music in movies is in the classic
Looney Toons shorts. Lots of kids and adults never would have been
exposed to classical music at all if not for those cartoons.
Think: "What's Opera, Doc?" I'm sure you see my point.
It's true, if not for Looney Tunes, I never would have heard When Ruby
Plays The Rhumba On The Tuba.

swac
o/~"What do they do on a rainy night in Rio..."o/~
Jim Powers
2004-09-23 02:38:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by ToolPackinMama
I think the best use of classical music in movies is in the classic
Looney Toons shorts. Lots of kids and adults never would have been
exposed to classical music at all if not for those cartoons.
Think: "What's Opera, Doc?" I'm sure you see my point.
There were a number of Looney Toons featuring a mynah bird who walked
with a curious little
hop, to the tune of Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture. Perfect match of
music and animation.
Alric Knebel
2004-09-23 04:20:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Powers
Post by ToolPackinMama
I think the best use of classical music in movies is in the classic
Looney Toons shorts. Lots of kids and adults never would have been
exposed to classical music at all if not for those cartoons.
Think: "What's Opera, Doc?" I'm sure you see my point.
There were a number of Looney Toons featuring a mynah bird who walked
with a curious little
hop, to the tune of Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture. Perfect match of
music and animation.
Thank you for providing the name to that music. I remember it well, and I
think of it often. I think I'll go and look for it on one of the
peer-to-peer networks.

Alric
Dr.Matt
2004-09-23 14:16:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alric Knebel
Thank you for providing the name to that music. I remember it well, and I
think of it often. I think I'll go and look for it on one of the
peer-to-peer networks.
Go away and do not bother musicians, little criminal.
--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
To be great, do things better and better. Don't wait for talent: no such thing.
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/
David Nakamoto
2004-09-23 05:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Well, if we're reaching for Bugs ( ^_^ ) I nominate "The Rabbit of
Seville." The only way to see "The Barber of Seville" in my books! ^_^
--
Yours Truly,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
'raid if you're afraid you'll have to overlook it.
Besides, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Jim Powers
Post by ToolPackinMama
I think the best use of classical music in movies is in the classic
Looney Toons shorts. Lots of kids and adults never would have been
exposed to classical music at all if not for those cartoons.
Think: "What's Opera, Doc?" I'm sure you see my point.
There were a number of Looney Toons featuring a mynah bird who walked
with a curious little
hop, to the tune of Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture. Perfect match of
music and animation.
Tony
2004-09-23 05:33:56 UTC
Permalink
Naa -- Woody Woodpecker's performance has Bugs beat. Of course that's my
opinion, and I prefer Domingo. If you're a Paverotti guy I can see where
Bugs would be more your style.
--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
Post by David Nakamoto
Well, if we're reaching for Bugs ( ^_^ ) I nominate "The Rabbit of
Seville." The only way to see "The Barber of Seville" in my books! ^_^
--
Yours Truly,
--- Dave
----------------------------------------------------------------------
'raid if you're afraid you'll have to overlook it.
Besides, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Jim Powers
Post by ToolPackinMama
I think the best use of classical music in movies is in the classic
Looney Toons shorts. Lots of kids and adults never would have been
exposed to classical music at all if not for those cartoons.
Think: "What's Opera, Doc?" I'm sure you see my point.
There were a number of Looney Toons featuring a mynah bird who walked
with a curious little
hop, to the tune of Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture. Perfect match of
music and animation.
Tony
2004-09-23 05:32:24 UTC
Permalink
I haven't seen that in ages. I wonder if the Looney Tunes are available
anywhere.
--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
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A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
Post by Jim Powers
Post by ToolPackinMama
I think the best use of classical music in movies is in the classic
Looney Toons shorts. Lots of kids and adults never would have been
exposed to classical music at all if not for those cartoons.
Think: "What's Opera, Doc?" I'm sure you see my point.
There were a number of Looney Toons featuring a mynah bird who walked
with a curious little
hop, to the tune of Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture. Perfect match of
music and animation.
Stephen Cooke
2004-09-23 14:05:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
I haven't seen that in ages. I wonder if the Looney Tunes are available
anywhere.
That Chuck Jones cartoon with Mendelssohn is the Inki series, starting
with Inki and the Mynah Bird. Of course they're never shown on TV or
released on video these days because the image of the little native boy is
deemed racially insensitive. But the cartoons themselves are hilarious
(I've seen a few projected with a crowd, they go over like gangbusters)
and have been undeservedly overlooked (as far as the mainstream
goes...cartoon buffs know them pretty well).

I think a handful of them were released in those laserdisc box sets from
MGM/Turner. But a few are still MIA.

swac
h***@brazee.net
2004-09-23 12:02:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Powers
Post by ToolPackinMama
Think: "What's Opera, Doc?" I'm sure you see my point.
There were a number of Looney Toons featuring a mynah bird who walked
with a curious little
hop, to the tune of Mendelssohn's Hebrides Overture. Perfect match of
music and animation.
Which brings up Woody Woodpecker.
Mike1
2004-09-23 16:37:22 UTC
Permalink
The John Williams fanfare at the beginning of the trench attack in "Star
Wars IV: A New Hope", which that senile bonehead just cut out of the DVD
rebutchering.
--
Reply to mike1@@@usfamily.net sans two @@, or your reply won't reach me.

Twin City Strategy Gamer: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TC_Strategy/

Drug smugglers and gun-runners are heroes of American capitalism.
-- Jeffrey Quick
Dr.Matt
2004-09-23 18:01:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike1
The John Williams fanfare
Open-ended question: Does that fit the question in the subject?
Post by Mike1
at the beginning of the trench attack in "Star
Wars IV: A New Hope", which that senile bonehead just cut out of the DVD
rebutchering.
--
Twin City Strategy Gamer: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TC_Strategy/
Drug smugglers and gun-runners are heroes of American capitalism.
-- Jeffrey Quick
--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
To be great, do things better and better. Don't wait for talent: no such thing.
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/
Joseph
2004-09-23 23:25:32 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:37:22 -0500, Mike1
Post by Mike1
The John Williams fanfare at the beginning of the trench attack in "Star
Wars IV: A New Hope", which that senile bonehead just cut out of the DVD
rebutchering.
You're not being very clear about which bonehead you refer to. Be
specific man!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Tony
2004-09-23 05:31:28 UTC
Permalink
My favourite Opera Cartoons are by Walter Lance. There is Andy Panda
conducting the Poet and Peasant Overture (Yeah it's somewhat of a rip on the
Mickey Mouse but it's really funny) and one I haven't seen in at least 48
years but still remember, with Woody Woodpecker shaving Wally Walrus while
singing "Figaro" from Barber of Saville.
Then there is Tom and Jerry doing Hungarian Dance Number 2" and the Mighty
Mouse operas.
--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
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A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
Post by ToolPackinMama
I think the best use of classical music in movies is in the classic
Looney Toons shorts. Lots of kids and adults never would have been
exposed to classical music at all if not for those cartoons.
Think: "What's Opera, Doc?" I'm sure you see my point.
John Harrington
2004-09-23 01:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
I came up with Night on Bald Mountain and Rites of Spring from
Fantasia -- didn't know the titles but over time figured them out and got
the records.
The Stravinsky ballet is "The Rite of Spring" (not Rites) or, originally,
"Le Sacre du Printemps".
Post by Tony
This was before Bach was played on classical radio, and the
Bach in Fantasia was that dead awful orchestration - it still sets my teeth
on edge.
You might like Sir Henry J Wood's orchestration better. I do.


J
Tony
2004-09-23 05:49:49 UTC
Permalink
I've heard it - I hate it. I am very very much against orchestrating Bach
organ music - and it took me years to accept Gould playing Bah on the
piano - I've come to rather like it now so who knows, before I shuffle off
this mortal coil I might come to like an orchestration.
Sorry about the errant "S". I tend to use the titles I used back then when
I'm writing about back then - and while I might be suffering from false
memory, I think my first recording might very well have been labeled
"Rites".
I remember a friend once bought a record that was labled Shubert's
Quintet For Ellen. It was a cheapy label (ninety nine cent list price kinda
thing) that bought older mono european recordings many from 78s and reissued
them in "FULL RANGE STEREO" which always turned out to be straight mono.
Whoever translated didn't know the German for "Trout".
Then there is my brother who spent years hunting for a new recording of
his warn out Vivaldi Piccolo Concertos record on the Nonesuch label. He
finally asked me (he had bought the record after hearing my copy) and I
explained that they were really recorder concertos. He couldn't understand
how the instruments could get mixed up - not knowing that the German in this
case would be Blochflote (the spelling is off) and the translator, after
seeing the flote part assumed flute not realising the "Bloch" part was the
key - it indicates a fipple flute aka a recorder or whistle. A listen to the
first concerto convinced this translator that the instrument was too high
for a flute and therefore must be a piccolo. So I turned my brother on to a
great recent recording by Micala Petrie.
--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
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A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
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Post by John Harrington
Post by Tony
I came up with Night on Bald Mountain and Rites of Spring from
Fantasia -- didn't know the titles but over time figured them out and got
the records.
The Stravinsky ballet is "The Rite of Spring" (not Rites) or, originally,
"Le Sacre du Printemps".
Post by Tony
This was before Bach was played on classical radio, and the
Bach in Fantasia was that dead awful orchestration - it still sets my
teeth
Post by Tony
on edge.
You might like Sir Henry J Wood's orchestration better. I do.
J
Peter T. Daniels
2004-09-23 12:44:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
I've heard it - I hate it. I am very very much against orchestrating Bach
organ music -
But it's now widely believed that the Toccata and Fugue in d minor was
originally not an organ piece at all, but JSB's arrangement of someone
else's solo violin piece.
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
David Nakamoto
2004-09-23 18:31:40 UTC
Permalink
Sounds like more revisionism to me. Revisionism has now become a euphemism
for axe-grinding.
--
Yours Truly,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
'raid if you're afraid you'll have to overlook it.
Besides, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony
I've heard it - I hate it. I am very very much against orchestrating Bach
organ music -
But it's now widely believed that the Toccata and Fugue in d minor was
originally not an organ piece at all, but JSB's arrangement of someone
else's solo violin piece.
--
Dr.Matt
2004-09-23 18:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Nakamoto
Sounds like more revisionism to me. Revisionism has now become a euphemism
for axe-grinding.
--
Yours Truly,
--- Dave
Well... the piece DOES have string-crossing motifs in it, but whether
they sound like axe grinding or not I cannot say, as there is no
historically informed performance recording of axe-grinding in the
late-Baroque manner.
Post by David Nakamoto
----------------------------------------------------------------------
'raid if you're afraid you'll have to overlook it.
Besides, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony
I've heard it - I hate it. I am very very much against orchestrating Bach
organ music -
But it's now widely believed that the Toccata and Fugue in d minor was
originally not an organ piece at all, but JSB's arrangement of someone
else's solo violin piece.
--
--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
To be great, do things better and better. Don't wait for talent: no such thing.
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/
Peter T. Daniels
2004-09-23 19:30:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr.Matt
Post by David Nakamoto
Sounds like more revisionism to me. Revisionism has now become a euphemism
for axe-grinding.
Well... the piece DOES have string-crossing motifs in it, but whether
they sound like axe grinding or not I cannot say, as there is no
historically informed performance recording of axe-grinding in the
late-Baroque manner.
I think I have Manze's version on a sampler disk somewhere -- that would
come pretty close, no?
Post by Dr.Matt
Post by David Nakamoto
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony
I've heard it - I hate it. I am very very much against orchestrating Bach
organ music -
But it's now widely believed that the Toccata and Fugue in d minor was
originally not an organ piece at all, but JSB's arrangement of someone
else's solo violin piece.
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
David Nakamoto
2004-09-23 23:12:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr.Matt
Post by David Nakamoto
Sounds like more revisionism to me. Revisionism has now become a euphemism
for axe-grinding.
--
Yours Truly,
--- Dave
Well... the piece DOES have string-crossing motifs in it, but whether
they sound like axe grinding or not I cannot say, as there is no
historically informed performance recording of axe-grinding in the
late-Baroque manner.
Really? I thought they might have a musical instrument or two based on the
melodic clanging of the axe. They had an instrument made of tuned glass
bowls you know. ^_^
--
Yours Truly,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
'raid if you're afraid you'll have to overlook it.
Besides, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Dr.Matt
Post by David Nakamoto
Post by Peter T. Daniels
But it's now widely believed that the Toccata and Fugue in d minor was
originally not an organ piece at all, but JSB's arrangement of someone
else's solo violin piece.
--
John Harrington
2004-09-23 19:38:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Nakamoto
Sounds like more revisionism to me. Revisionism has now become a euphemism
for axe-grinding.
Revisionism has gotten a bad rap, but it's a necessary part of all fields,
no less musicology.


J
George Peatty
2004-09-23 23:14:39 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 12:44:02 GMT, "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
But it's now widely believed that the Toccata and Fugue in d minor was
originally not an organ piece at all, but JSB's arrangement of someone
else's solo violin piece.
Vanessa Mae does a violin version of T and F in DM. It takes some getting
used to, but it's a viable treatment, IMO.
Tony
2004-09-24 00:05:07 UTC
Permalink
I've heard that theory and don't particularly subscribe to it. As one who
has listened for many years to the solo violin and solo cello suites I think
the Toccata could easily have been a fiddlers showpiece, but the fugue would
be impossible on a stinged instrument for anyone with only two hands - of
course it's hard to tell how much Bach would have changed it - and of course
there is the four harpsichord concerto.
And there is Bach's considerable writings for Lute which are almost
unplayable for most people - but there was an instrument - a keyboard
instrument with harpsichord action - called the "Lautenwerk" (sp) on which
those same pieces are, while not by any stretch of the imagination easy, are
quite playable by a wide range of players
--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony
I've heard it - I hate it. I am very very much against orchestrating Bach
organ music -
But it's now widely believed that the Toccata and Fugue in d minor was
originally not an organ piece at all, but JSB's arrangement of someone
else's solo violin piece.
--
John Harkness
2004-09-23 13:21:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
I've heard it - I hate it. I am very very much against orchestrating Bach
organ music - and it took me years to accept Gould playing Bah on the
piano - I've come to rather like it now so who knows, before I shuffle off
this mortal coil I might come to like an orchestration.
I actually prefer the organ works transcribed and the harpsichord
works on piano. I don't particularly like the sound of the pipe organ.

John Harkness
Stephen Cooke
2004-09-23 14:07:48 UTC
Permalink
What, nobody's going to mention Lisztomania?

swac
francis muir
2004-09-23 14:30:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harkness
Post by Tony
I've heard it - I hate it. I am very very much against orchestrating Bach
organ music - and it took me years to accept Gould playing Bah on the
piano - I've come to rather like it now so who knows, before I shuffle off
this mortal coil I might come to like an orchestration.
I actually prefer the organ works transcribed and the harpsichord
works on piano. I don't particularly like the sound of the pipe organ.
Concur. In like fashion I was once a purist with respeect to harpsichord
works - perhaps because of an afternoon at the Wigmore Hall where I fell
under the spell of Wanda Landowska playing the Goldberg variations. The
Handel keyboard suites - and I believe I have every available known
recording - are often quite muddy on the harpsichord but beautifully defined
on the pianoforte particularly in the recordings by Richter and Gavrilov.
John Harrington
2004-09-23 15:37:34 UTC
Permalink
<snips>
Post by francis muir
Post by John Harkness
I actually prefer the organ works transcribed and the harpsichord
works on piano. I don't particularly like the sound of the pipe organ.
Concur.
The piano can do things the harpsichord can't, but also vice versa. I
wouldn't be without recordings of either. And I like recordings of Bach's
organ music both arranged and original.


J
John Harrington
2004-09-23 15:37:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
I've heard it - I hate it. I am very very much against orchestrating Bach
organ music - and it took me years to accept Gould playing Bah on the
piano - I've come to rather like it now so who knows, before I shuffle off
this mortal coil I might come to like an orchestration.
As PTD pointed out, the original is itself an arrangement. Bach
re-instrumented a lot in his lifetime, of course, among them concertos of
Vivaldi, Marcello and Ernst for both the organ and harpsichord (er, not at
the same time), and a whole slew of his own works for various instruments
and ensembles. He even arranged a piece of his own organ music, turning one
of his organ trio sonatas into an actual trio sonata.
Post by Tony
Sorry about the errant "S".
No prob. In English, the generic phrase is indeed "rites of spring", though
the ballet's title remains singular. It's a pretty common and
understandable confusion.


J
Richard Schultz
2004-09-23 18:14:08 UTC
Permalink
In rec.music.classical Tony <***@nc.rr.com> wrote:

: I remember a friend once bought a record that was labled Shubert's
: Quintet For Ellen. . . . Whoever translated didn't know the German
: for "Trout".

Did they know the German for "Schubert"?

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You don't even have a clue about which clue you're missing."
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-09-23 03:26:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
I've maintained Biggs back recordings since my twenties also - they are now
CDs so I doubt I'll ever have to replace them again. But I also like the
firey and erratic Virgil Fox, Marie Clair Alain, and a few others - yeah
I've got a lot of Bach organ stuff around.
This is totally OT *but* I attended a concert in the fall of 1976 by Marie
Clair Alain at St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral here in Seattle, where lives a
beautiful Flentrop organ. I vividly recall her playing a composition by her
brother Jehan, who died at the age of 29 at Saumur, June 1940. Beyond
moving. (I see she maintains a website in his memory,
http://www.jehanalain.com/ .)
Post by Tony
I came up with Night on Bald Mountain and Rites of Spring from
Fantasia -- didn't know the titles but over time figured them out and got
the records. This was before Bach was played on classical radio, and the
Bach in Fantasia was that dead awful orchestration - it still sets my teeth
on edge.
I once went to a Seattle Symphony concert that led off with this. There they
were, 101 men and women working like the Devil, and still they couldn't
touch the glory of one single organ. I started laughing and had to leave the
concert hall until they had finished.

[deletions]
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
francis muir
2004-09-23 04:47:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by Tony
I've maintained Biggs back recordings since my twenties also - they are now
CDs so I doubt I'll ever have to replace them again. But I also like the
firey and erratic Virgil Fox, Marie Clair Alain, and a few others - yeah
I've got a lot of Bach organ stuff around.
This is totally OT *but* I attended a concert in the fall of 1976 by Marie
Clair Alain at St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral here in Seattle, where lives a
beautiful Flentrop organ. I vividly recall her playing a composition by her
brother Jehan, who died at the age of 29 at Saumur, June 1940. Beyond
moving. (I see she maintains a website in his memory,
http://www.jehanalain.com/ .)
Post by Tony
I came up with Night on Bald Mountain and Rites of Spring from
Fantasia -- didn't know the titles but over time figured them out and got
the records. This was before Bach was played on classical radio, and the
Bach in Fantasia was that dead awful orchestration - it still sets my teeth
on edge.
I once went to a Seattle Symphony concert that led off with this. There they
were, 101 men and women working like the Devil, and still they couldn't
touch the glory of one single organ. I started laughing and had to leave the
concert hall until they had finished.
[deletions]
In 1920 Marcel Dupré in ten concerts in Westminster Cathedral
played the complete Bach organ works from memory. Nowadays they
are available on midi files I suspect.
Tony
2004-09-23 05:52:48 UTC
Permalink
I know at least one of my Alain records was recorded on a Flentrop - don't
know if it was the one in Seattle, and the sleeves of all my CDs are stored
in teh garage - I have a couple 400 disc changers. It didn't really make
finding stuff easier, but it makes storing it simpler.
--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by Tony
I've maintained Biggs back recordings since my twenties also - they are now
CDs so I doubt I'll ever have to replace them again. But I also like the
firey and erratic Virgil Fox, Marie Clair Alain, and a few others - yeah
I've got a lot of Bach organ stuff around.
This is totally OT *but* I attended a concert in the fall of 1976 by Marie
Clair Alain at St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral here in Seattle, where lives a
beautiful Flentrop organ. I vividly recall her playing a composition by her
brother Jehan, who died at the age of 29 at Saumur, June 1940. Beyond
moving. (I see she maintains a website in his memory,
http://www.jehanalain.com/ .)
Post by Tony
I came up with Night on Bald Mountain and Rites of Spring from
Fantasia -- didn't know the titles but over time figured them out and got
the records. This was before Bach was played on classical radio, and the
Bach in Fantasia was that dead awful orchestration - it still sets my teeth
on edge.
I once went to a Seattle Symphony concert that led off with this. There they
were, 101 men and women working like the Devil, and still they couldn't
touch the glory of one single organ. I started laughing and had to leave the
concert hall until they had finished.
[deletions]
--
Frank in Seattle
___________
Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney
"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
Peter T. Daniels
2004-09-23 12:45:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by Tony
I've maintained Biggs back recordings since my twenties also - they are now
CDs so I doubt I'll ever have to replace them again. But I also like the
firey and erratic Virgil Fox, Marie Clair Alain, and a few others - yeah
I've got a lot of Bach organ stuff around.
This is totally OT *but* I attended a concert in the fall of 1976 by Marie
Clair Alain at St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral here in Seattle, where lives a
beautiful Flentrop organ. I vividly recall her playing a composition by her
brother Jehan, who died at the age of 29 at Saumur, June 1940. Beyond
moving. (I see she maintains a website in his memory,
http://www.jehanalain.com/ .)
She has issued at least three sets of his complete organ works (2 disks
each). There are also other complete sets available.
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
David
2004-09-22 16:24:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
I think my favourite is the movie that got me into Bach at a very young
age "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea". I remember shoveling snow that winter to
buy an album with the Toccata and fugue in D minor. The first one I bought
had the wrong D minor (the Dorian) but I wasn't complaining. From there I
went on to the Brandenburgs and -- etc. etc. etc.
I love the use of the Goldberg Variations in Bergman's "The Silence."
It's like seeing the sunlight break through a murky surf you're
drowning in.
Jerry Kohl
2004-09-22 07:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by herothatdied
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
Platoon - Barber's "Adagio for Strings in D Minor" was used quite well
there, I think.
I don't believe I know that piece. Is it anything like the famous but
overplayed Adagio for Strings in B-flat minor (from the otherwise
negligible String Quartet in B Minor, op. 11)?

--
Jerry Kohl <***@comcast.net>
"Légpárnás hajóm tele van angolnákkal."
Bob Tiernan
2004-09-22 07:41:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by herothatdied
Platoon - Barber's "Adagio for Strings in D Minor"
was used quite well there, I think.
Yes, that is an excellent piece. It was, in fact,
used often during or soon after WWII during memorial
services for the memories of many individual soldiers
who were killed in the war.

Bob T
Peter T. Daniels
2004-09-22 12:28:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Tiernan
Post by herothatdied
Platoon - Barber's "Adagio for Strings in D Minor"
was used quite well there, I think.
Yes, that is an excellent piece. It was, in fact,
used often during or soon after WWII during memorial
services for the memories of many individual soldiers
who were killed in the war.
How did you manage to hang your posting off of Jerry's without
recognizing that there's no such piece?
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
herothatdied
2004-09-22 16:22:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Kohl
Post by herothatdied
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
Platoon - Barber's "Adagio for Strings in D Minor" was used quite well
there, I think.
I don't believe I know that piece. Is it anything like the famous but
overplayed Adagio for Strings in B-flat minor (from the otherwise
negligible String Quartet in B Minor, op. 11)?
My bad, Barber good.
francis muir
2004-09-22 12:47:31 UTC
Permalink
*A Room with a View* is the most lush of all Merchant/Ivory/Jhabvala
films and not least for the magnificent recording of Kiri Te Kanawa's
voice singing arias from two Puccini operas. For those for whom the
devil is in the details:

"O mio babbino caro" from the one-act opera "Gianni Schicchi" which is
also act III of "Il Trittico" if that makes any sense. Understanding
the sense (nonsense?) of the words helps define the overwrought character
of Lucy HoneyChurch. Rememeber her Beethoven? "Chi il bel sogno di Doretta"
(Oh My God! A Kiss on ther Mouth!!) from "La Rondine" Act I also nicely
points up Lucy's "awakening".

Another favorite film of mine - they are literary aren't they - is the
Fiennes Family's *Onegin* which has a splendid version of the vocal
quintet from Beethoven's "Fidelio".

I guess someone must have mentioned another favorite of mine, *An Equal
Music*, another - Oh My God! - literary film.

fra who's thinking of changing his nom-de-net to ffoulkes (just plain
ffoulkes) so to distinhguish himself from thr plethora of other fra's.
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-09-22 17:46:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by francis muir
*A Room with a View* is the most lush of all Merchant/Ivory/Jhabvala
films and not least for the magnificent recording of Kiri Te Kanawa's
voice singing arias from two Puccini operas. For those for whom the
"O mio babbino caro" from the one-act opera "Gianni Schicchi" which is
also act III of "Il Trittico" if that makes any sense. Understanding
the sense (nonsense?) of the words helps define the overwrought character
of Lucy HoneyChurch. Rememeber her Beethoven? "Chi il bel sogno di Doretta"
(Oh My God! A Kiss on ther Mouth!!) from "La Rondine" Act I also nicely
points up Lucy's "awakening".
[deletion]

You beat me to this one. Somehow those arias perfectly capture the sense and
feeling of the film. I cannot hear "O mio babbino caro" without thinking of
_Room With a View_.
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
Jack Lefton
2004-09-22 21:11:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
You beat me to this one. Somehow those arias perfectly capture the sense
and feeling of the film. I cannot hear "O mio babbino caro" without
thinking of _Room With a View_.
Frank in Seattle
And I can't hear "Claire de Lune" without seeing Sally Rand doing her fan
dance in the Astrodome as Chuck Yaeger soars the sky in "The Right Stuff".
Richard Schultz
2004-09-23 18:12:02 UTC
Permalink
In rec.music.classical Frank R.A.J. Maloney <***@blarg.net> wrote:

: I cannot hear "O mio babbino caro" without thinking of
: _Room With a View_.

Can you hear Mozart's 40th symphony (or the Tchaikowsky Violin Concerto)
wihtout thinking of _The Tall Blond Man with One Black Shoe_?

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-09-23 18:38:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Schultz
: I cannot hear "O mio babbino caro" without thinking of
: _Room With a View_.
Can you hear Mozart's 40th symphony (or the Tchaikowsky Violin Concerto)
wihtout thinking of _The Tall Blond Man with One Black Shoe_?
Nope, I must confess. I've only seen that film (and its sequel) once, when
they were released theatrically in the U.S. On the other hand, I've seen _A
Room With a View_ in the theater and at home a dozen times at least.

I also still can't separate the Lone Ranger from The William Tell Overture
or The 1812 Overture from Popped Wheat/Popped Rice ("Shot from guns).

I bet Yiddish has a word for the likes of me.
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
Richard Schultz
2004-09-23 19:05:32 UTC
Permalink
In rec.music.classical Frank R.A.J. Maloney <***@blarg.net> wrote:

:> Can you hear Mozart's 40th symphony (or the Tchaikowsky Violin Concerto)
:> wihtout thinking of _The Tall Blond Man with One Black Shoe_?

: Nope, I must confess. I've only seen that film (and its sequel) once, when
: they were released theatrically in the U.S. On the other hand, I've seen _A
: Room With a View_ in the theater and at home a dozen times at least.

I normally try not to get involved in Tony Gaza threads, but having gone
this far, I'll get back to the original subject by stating that I think
that Woody Allen's choice of Schubert's String Quartet #15 for _Crimes
and Misdemeanors_ was absolutely inspired. I also liked the use of the
Satie Gynmopedie at the end of _My Dinner with Andre_.

There's also the famous use of the "Liebestod" from _Tristan und Isolde_
in _Un Chien Andalou_ and _L'Age d'Or_. On the other hand, the use of the
prelude to _Tristan und Isolde_ for the Lancelot-meets-Guenevere scene in
_Excalibur_ was certainly good for a laugh.

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
There's something I must tell you, there's something I must say:
The only really perfect love is one that gets away.
La Donna Mobile
2004-09-23 21:43:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
I also still can't separate the Lone Ranger from The William Tell Overture
Only intellectuals can...
Johnd Fstone
2004-09-23 22:14:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by La Donna Mobile
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
I also still can't separate the Lone Ranger from The William Tell Overture
Only intellectuals can...
Right, because kids who are too young to have absorbed '50s TV are
intellectual by definition.
--
But I forgot to tell you the MAIN ingredient is her own menstrual
blood, and both she and the snake REALLY dig it. -- Abigail
Tony
2004-09-23 06:03:05 UTC
Permalink
Apparently weveryone has forgotten the Ode to Joy in "Help". You are all in
danger of being eaten by tigers.
--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
Post by herothatdied
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
Platoon - Barber's "Adagio for Strings in D Minor" was used quite well
there, I think. I'll put in a vote for two Woody Allen movies - Love and
Death uses Prokofiev delightfully, (I can say with certainty that it wasn't
composed for the movie, seeing as how the movie was made more than twenty
years after Prokofiev's death) and there's a bit in Hannah and Her Sisters
where Sam Waterston is taking Carrie Fisher and Dianne Wiest for an
architectural tour of New York (and how many movies stop for an
architectural tour?) where the overture to Madame Butterfly is used to
excellent effect. Which reminds me that I shouldn't forget Moonstruck: La
Boheme playing, snow falling and Nicholas Cage saying that the purpose of
life is to love the wrong people - every time I see that I can't help
craning my neck, wondering when I'll meet Mr. Passionate Wrong. Maybe if I
wasn't so sure that he looks just like Nicholas Cage... - htd
Pam or C. Wayne Owens
2004-09-23 14:46:31 UTC
Permalink
"The Blue Danube Waltz" in the original "Goodbye Mr. Chips"
wayne
http://www.movieandtvnews.com/
Post by herothatdied
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
Platoon - Barber's "Adagio for Strings in D Minor" was used quite well
there, I think. I'll put in a vote for two Woody Allen movies - Love and
Death uses Prokofiev delightfully, (I can say with certainty that it wasn't
composed for the movie, seeing as how the movie was made more than twenty
years after Prokofiev's death) and there's a bit in Hannah and Her Sisters
where Sam Waterston is taking Carrie Fisher and Dianne Wiest for an
architectural tour of New York (and how many movies stop for an
architectural tour?) where the overture to Madame Butterfly is used to
excellent effect. Which reminds me that I shouldn't forget Moonstruck: La
Boheme playing, snow falling and Nicholas Cage saying that the purpose of
life is to love the wrong people - every time I see that I can't help
craning my neck, wondering when I'll meet Mr. Passionate Wrong. Maybe if I
wasn't so sure that he looks just like Nicholas Cage... - htd
jayembee
2004-09-22 04:34:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
My choice might seem a little odd, but....ROLLERBALL (1975).

I loved the use of Bach's "Toccata and Fugue in D Minor", as
well as Albinoni's "Adagio in G Minor" (also used very well in
GALLIPOLI) and Tchaikovski's "Sleeping Beauty Waltz".

And it was the ROLLERBALL soundtrack that made me a fan of
Shostakovitz.

-- jayembee
Pmeason
2004-09-22 05:25:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by jayembee
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
My choice might seem a little odd, but....ROLLERBALL (1975).
I loved the use of Bach's "Toccata and Fugue in D Minor", as
well as Albinoni's "Adagio in G Minor" (also used very well in
GALLIPOLI) and Tchaikovski's "Sleeping Beauty Waltz".
And it was the ROLLERBALL soundtrack that made me a fan of
Shostakovitz.
Hugo Alfven's "Swedish Rhapsody" in "The Stranger Left no Card".

Peter
Bob Tiernan
2004-09-22 07:44:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goy Liath
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
GLORY used orff to good effect during the
Fort Wagner sequence. I hated it at first
but eventually learned to like it a lot - it
even inspired copy-cat stuff in commercials
and the like.

Bob Tiernan

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual.
Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to
be defenders of minorities."

-- Ayn Rand
Peter Redmond
2004-09-22 08:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Visconti's "Death in Venice" and the adagietto from Mahlers 5th Symphony?
Dirk Bogart as Gustav Aschenbach / Mahler in obvious emotional turmoil while
maintaining a steely exterior was the performance of a lifetime. I seem to
remember one of the the Kindertotenlieder in the movie as well.
Post by Bob Tiernan
Post by Goy Liath
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
GLORY used orff to good effect during the
Fort Wagner sequence. I hated it at first
but eventually learned to like it a lot - it
even inspired copy-cat stuff in commercials
and the like.
Bob Tiernan
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual.
Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to
be defenders of minorities."
-- Ayn Rand
David
2004-09-22 16:27:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Tiernan
Post by Goy Liath
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
GLORY used orff to good effect during the
Fort Wagner sequence. I hated it at first
but eventually learned to like it a lot - it
even inspired copy-cat stuff in commercials
and the like.
Still, no one used Wagner as beautifully as Anna Russell.
Tony
2004-09-23 05:55:25 UTC
Permalink
I bet if Wagner was still alive at the time he would have admitted he was
being "used". I particularly like "She was the first woman he ever met who
wasn't his aunt." and "You do remember the Rhine, don't you?"
--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
Post by David
Post by Bob Tiernan
Post by Goy Liath
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
GLORY used orff to good effect during the
Fort Wagner sequence. I hated it at first
but eventually learned to like it a lot - it
even inspired copy-cat stuff in commercials
and the like.
Still, no one used Wagner as beautifully as Anna Russell.
h***@brazee.net
2004-09-22 12:04:17 UTC
Permalink
With the criticism that Williams gets, I still think _Star Wars_ success was
largely due to the music fitting very well.
John Harkness
2004-09-22 12:55:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@brazee.net
With the criticism that Williams gets, I still think _Star Wars_ success was
largely due to the music fitting very well.
What does that have to do with classical music?

Unless, of course, Williams pillaging of Korngold's score for The Sea
Hawk is "classical".

John Harkness
John Harrington
2004-09-22 14:19:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harkness
Post by h***@brazee.net
With the criticism that Williams gets, I still think _Star Wars_ success was
largely due to the music fitting very well.
What does that have to do with classical music?
I'm not Howard, but I'll hazard an answer here: the _Star Wars_ score is
written in a particular and identifiable "movie music" style which is a
direct ancestor of classical composers such as Richard Strauss, Wagner, and
Mahler.
Post by John Harkness
Unless, of course, Williams pillaging of Korngold's score for The Sea
Hawk is "classical".
By the way, I'm no particular fan of Williams' scores, but it rankles to see
constant unsupported claims of his stealing from this composer or that
(usually in his _Star Wars_ score). The only substantiated claim is a
direct quotation from the introduction to the second half of Le Sacre in a
cue for the Jawa land rover at dusk. If you mean Williams was influenced by
the score to _The Sea Hawk_, that's not surprising considering the fact that
Lucas requested a score that was reminiscent of classic Hollywood. But
being influenced by and pillaging are two entirely different things.


J
Peter T. Daniels
2004-09-22 15:53:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harrington
Post by John Harkness
Post by h***@brazee.net
With the criticism that Williams gets, I still think _Star Wars_ success was
largely due to the music fitting very well.
What does that have to do with classical music?
I'm not Howard, but I'll hazard an answer here: the _Star Wars_ score is
written in a particular and identifiable "movie music" style which is a
direct ancestor of classical composers such as Richard Strauss, Wagner, and
Mahler.
Really? I'm sure I've seen John Williams through the teevee within the
last decade at least!
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
Tony
2004-09-23 05:56:44 UTC
Permalink
I think it is called "referencing" when you do it well and "pillaging" when
you do is as badly as Williams.
--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
Post by John Harrington
Post by John Harkness
Post by h***@brazee.net
With the criticism that Williams gets, I still think _Star Wars_
success
Post by John Harrington
was
Post by John Harkness
Post by h***@brazee.net
largely due to the music fitting very well.
What does that have to do with classical music?
I'm not Howard, but I'll hazard an answer here: the _Star Wars_ score is
written in a particular and identifiable "movie music" style which is a
direct ancestor of classical composers such as Richard Strauss, Wagner, and
Mahler.
Post by John Harkness
Unless, of course, Williams pillaging of Korngold's score for The Sea
Hawk is "classical".
By the way, I'm no particular fan of Williams' scores, but it rankles to see
constant unsupported claims of his stealing from this composer or that
(usually in his _Star Wars_ score). The only substantiated claim is a
direct quotation from the introduction to the second half of Le Sacre in a
cue for the Jawa land rover at dusk. If you mean Williams was influenced by
the score to _The Sea Hawk_, that's not surprising considering the fact that
Lucas requested a score that was reminiscent of classic Hollywood. But
being influenced by and pillaging are two entirely different things.
J
David Nakamoto
2004-09-23 18:30:17 UTC
Permalink
Pillaging is the term, huh? I thought it worked well, and was sanctioned
by, the Vikings! Or the Crusaders! ^_^
--
Yours Truly,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
'raid if you're afraid you'll have to overlook it.
Besides, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by Tony
I think it is called "referencing" when you do it well and "pillaging" when
you do is as badly as Williams.
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-09-23 18:33:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Nakamoto
Pillaging is the term, huh? I thought it worked well, and was sanctioned
by, the Vikings! Or the Crusaders! ^_^
--
I once saw a full-page, full-color cartoon in "Playboy" way back when. A
gang of Vikings were going back to their boat, a burning village behind
them, and the Viking chief is saying to one of his men:

"How many times do I have to tell you: *kill* the men and *rape* the women?"
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
Stephen Cooke
2004-09-23 19:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by David Nakamoto
Pillaging is the term, huh? I thought it worked well, and was sanctioned
by, the Vikings! Or the Crusaders! ^_^
--
I once saw a full-page, full-color cartoon in "Playboy" way back when. A
gang of Vikings were going back to their boat, a burning village behind
"How many times do I have to tell you: *kill* the men and *rape* the women?"
I thought it was "slaughter their *cattle* and rape their *women*."?

swac
David Nakamoto
2004-09-23 23:10:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank R.A.J. Maloney
Post by David Nakamoto
Pillaging is the term, huh? I thought it worked well, and was sanctioned
by, the Vikings! Or the Crusaders! ^_^
--
I once saw a full-page, full-color cartoon in "Playboy" way back when. A
gang of Vikings were going back to their boat, a burning village behind
"How many times do I have to tell you: *kill* the men and *rape* the women?"
Haha ! Very GOOD one!

My favorite for some reason is the Muppet's version of "In the Navy" . . .
using Vikings!
--
Yours Truly,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
'raid if you're afraid you'll have to overlook it.
Besides, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
John Harrington
2004-09-23 20:15:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
I think it is called "referencing" when you do it well and "pillaging" when
you do is as badly as Williams.
It shouldn't be called "pillaging" at all unless it's a direct quotation.


J
Dr.Matt
2004-09-23 20:21:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harrington
Post by Tony
I think it is called "referencing" when you do it well and "pillaging"
when
Post by Tony
you do is as badly as Williams.
It shouldn't be called "pillaging" at all unless it's a direct quotation.
J
Williams's pastiches are kinda cute, I think, and make decent replacements
for the temp tracks which they replace--mostly Jupiter and Mars, but
occasionally O Fortuna.
--
Matthew H. Fields http://personal.www.umich.edu/~fields
Music: Splendor in Sound
To be great, do things better and better. Don't wait for talent: no such thing.
Brights have a naturalistic world-view. http://www.the-brights.net/
Peter T. Daniels
2004-09-23 22:10:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dr.Matt
Post by John Harrington
Post by Tony
I think it is called "referencing" when you do it well and "pillaging"
when
Post by Tony
you do is as badly as Williams.
It shouldn't be called "pillaging" at all unless it's a direct quotation.
J
Williams's pastiches are kinda cute, I think, and make decent replacements
for the temp tracks which they replace--mostly Jupiter and Mars, but
occasionally O Fortuna.
That would seem to be a reference to "Fly Me to the Moon." Sinatra, not
classical.
--
Peter T. Daniels ***@att.net
David
2004-09-22 16:28:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harkness
Post by h***@brazee.net
With the criticism that Williams gets, I still think _Star Wars_ success was
largely due to the music fitting very well.
What does that have to do with classical music?
Unless, of course, Williams pillaging of Korngold's score for The Sea
Hawk is "classical".
"The Sea Hawk," too?! What a clever little thief he was. He stole from
"King's Row," as well.
Alan Watkins
2004-09-22 21:55:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Harkness
Post by h***@brazee.net
With the criticism that Williams gets, I still think _Star Wars_ success was
largely due to the music fitting very well.
What does that have to do with classical music?
Unless, of course, Williams pillaging of Korngold's score for The Sea
Hawk is "classical".
John Harkness
Both recordings were performed by timpanists who played
for...errr...classical orchestras? Other than that I do not know the
answer.

Korngold does not ask for five timpani nor the same number of sharps
and flats or five timpani or such rapid pedalling as Imperial
March...just seconds in Imperial March...but there is probably no
classical connection.

If you have to play it, who cares?

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
JBravo
2004-09-22 12:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Rachmaninoff's 2nd Piano Concerto in "The Seven Year Itch".
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
La Donna Mobile
2004-09-22 13:11:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
For me, there are two - Andante in Mozart's Piano Concert No. 21 in C, which
featured in 'Regarding Henry' a rather forgettable film, except for
Harrison Ford. However, the use of this music hit me right in the solar
plexus and the brain, and I have loved it ever since.

The other one is a bit of a cheat. When I was seven we stayed in a hotel for
a few days. (I can't remember the details but as an aside I must stress
there was no child neglect involved...) My parents and older sister went
down to the hotel restaurant, leaving me and my brother, then aged four
months, in the hotel room, with all lights out and the TV on.

A very deep impression was made on me by black and white grainy footage of
soldiers going over the top in WWI with some sublimely beautiful music
playing.

I had no conscious recall of this for nine years; then, to mark the fiftieth
anniversary of Elgar's death, Ken Russell's 1962 film was shown. I suddenly
commented that I had seen it before - much to my parents' surprise; they
hadn't.

I had just completed my O-Level (public exams at age 16) History project on
WWI Trench Warfare, and realised that my fascination for that, and my love
of Nimrod (and the other Enigma variations) went back to that chance
childhood viewing.

I saw the clip again the other day on the Elgar programme I mentioned on
another thread, and it really does work.

And I realise that I have answered subjectively, rather than objectively,
<Shrugs>
John Harrington
2004-09-22 14:19:14 UTC
Permalink
"La Donna Mobile" <***@brixton.fsworld.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
Post by La Donna Mobile
For me, there are two - Andante in Mozart's Piano Concert No. 21 in C, which
featured in 'Regarding Henry' a rather forgettable film, except for
Harrison Ford. However, the use of this music hit me right in the solar
plexus and the brain, and I have loved it ever since.
This music is more famously used in Bo Widerberg's _Elvira Madigan_, hence
the concerto's at-one-time ubiquitous nickname.
Post by La Donna Mobile
And I realise that I have answered subjectively, rather than objectively,
<Shrugs>
Is there another way to answer?


J
Richard Schultz
2004-09-23 18:10:41 UTC
Permalink
In rec.music.classical La Donna Mobile <***@brixton.fsworld.co.uk> wrote:

: For me, there are two - Andante in Mozart's Piano Concert No. 21 in C, which
: featured in 'Regarding Henry'

Do they still sell any recordings of that piece that refer to it on
the cover as the "Elvira Madigan" Concerto?

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
It's a bird, it's a plane -- no, it's Mozart. . .
John Harrington
2004-09-22 14:19:37 UTC
Permalink
The best? Donizetti's Lucia in Paul Cox's _Man of Flowers_.


J
Peter Redmond
2004-09-22 14:46:27 UTC
Permalink
Speaking of Donizettis Lucia de Lammermoor, there was that wonderful usage
of "Chi mi Frena" in a recent movie .Can't remember the name of the movie,
something about moving into a house. There was a scene which ended with the
scaffolding around the house falling down to the to the strains of "Qual
terrible momento!" Priceless!!!
Post by John Harrington
The best? Donizetti's Lucia in Paul Cox's _Man of Flowers_.
J
Tony
2004-09-23 05:58:30 UTC
Permalink
Could it have been "The Money Pit"? I saw it once about the time it came
out on video and can't remember the music or much else about the movie now.
--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/writ/hait/hatitl.html
Post by Peter Redmond
Speaking of Donizettis Lucia de Lammermoor, there was that wonderful usage
of "Chi mi Frena" in a recent movie .Can't remember the name of the movie,
something about moving into a house. There was a scene which ended with the
scaffolding around the house falling down to the to the strains of "Qual
terrible momento!" Priceless!!!
Post by John Harrington
The best? Donizetti's Lucia in Paul Cox's _Man of Flowers_.
J
artyw
2004-09-22 20:39:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
Prokofiev's score for Alexander Nevsky

Nobody has mentioned A Clockwork Orange yet. I wonder why....
herothatdied
2004-09-22 21:57:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by artyw
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
Prokofiev's score for Alexander Nevsky
Nobody has mentioned A Clockwork Orange yet. I wonder why....
Aversion therapy at work?
h***@brazee.net
2004-09-23 02:26:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by artyw
Nobody has mentioned A Clockwork Orange yet. I wonder why....
Its use was entirely different. Instead of setting a mood, it was a plot
element.
David Nakamoto
2004-09-23 05:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Not all of it. The Beethoven ninth symphony was the only one that had
anything to do with the plot. The rest of it didn't.

I thought of nominating it, but the use of classical music didn't have as
much impact to the visuals and story as 2001 did.
--
Yours Truly,
--- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
'raid if you're afraid you'll have to overlook it.
Besides, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by h***@brazee.net
Post by artyw
Nobody has mentioned A Clockwork Orange yet. I wonder why....
Its use was entirely different. Instead of setting a mood, it was a plot
element.
Tony
2004-09-23 06:01:45 UTC
Permalink
Actually Purcell's music was used to set mood - and of all the composers
used, Purcell wasn't given a credit. For the life of me I can't remember
what the piece was now - The Funeral March perhaps but the credit went to
Walter or Wendy Carlos who played it on a Moog. It was his music in the same
way Marvin Plagery Hamlish wrote The Entertainer.
--
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com
home of The Camera-ist's Manifesto
The Improved Links Pages are at
http://www.chapelhillnoir.com/links/mlinks00.html
A sample chapter from "Haight-Ashbury" is at
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Post by h***@brazee.net
Post by artyw
Nobody has mentioned A Clockwork Orange yet. I wonder why....
Its use was entirely different. Instead of setting a mood, it was a plot
element.
Tom Cervo
2004-09-23 10:43:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Actually Purcell's music was used to set mood - and of all the composers
used, Purcell wasn't given a credit. For the life of me I can't remember
what the piece was now - The Funeral March perhaps but the credit went to
Walter or Wendy Carlos who played it on a Moog. It was his music in the same
way Marvin Plagery Hamlish wrote The Entertainer.
Funeral Music for Queen Mary. Purcell's patroness.
Vince Macek
2004-09-23 22:13:59 UTC
Permalink
I thought all the J.S. Bach in 'Slaughterhouse-Five' was used quite
well - particularly the Goldberg Variation in the post-bombing
scene...I don't know it by name, but it's a somber minor-key one used.
The same one was used to much worse effect in 'The Terminal Man'
slightly later - the movie looked like they were aiming for 'Clockwork
Orange' territory and landed around Monty Python's 'Salad Days'.

If I can extend the thread to tv shows (and I am)...
The 'L'Arlesienne' suite by Bizet was a great leitmotif in the
'Prisoner' episode 'Hammer into Anvil'.
The 'cold little hand' aria from Puccini's 'La Boheme' used in the
'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' episode 'Passion' contributed to maybe the
most painful tv-fiction scene I ever hope to see.

VMacek
Goy Liath
2004-09-22 21:04:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
handel largo in makioka sisters.
Goy Liath
2004-09-22 21:04:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
albinoni in welles's trial.
Mpoconnor7
2004-09-22 21:30:30 UTC
Permalink
"Song of Joy" in Die Hard.

Michael O'Connor - Modern Renaissance Man

"The likelihood of one individual being correct increases in a direct
proportion to the intensity with which others try to prove him wrong"
James Mason from the movie "Heaven Can Wait".
RX-01
2004-09-22 22:21:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
Mahler in Visconti's Death in Venice (adapted by the novel by Thomas
Mann). Visconti presents the main character as Mahler himself (there are
many hints from Mahlers' life) so this makes the music suit the film
even more. Even if Visconti portrayed the main character as a writer (as
is the case with Mann's novel) again this would be my vote for the best
use of classical music in a film.

RX-01
David Matthews
2004-09-23 07:19:32 UTC
Permalink
I've Always Loved You (1946) aka "Concerto"

Dave in Toronto
Arindam Banerjee
2004-09-22 23:19:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
1. excalibur's use of wagner and orff.
2. apocalypse now and wagner
3. barry lyndon various
4. happy gilmore mahler
Ravi Shanker, in Ray's "Pather Panchali".
h***@brazee.net
2004-09-23 02:30:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goy Liath
1. 2001 space odyssey strauss
Ummm. Which Strauss?

When that movie came out, I had never heard "Also Sprach Zarathustra".
Robert Marshall
2004-09-23 05:33:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goy Liath
excluding classical-style music composed for the movie(for example,
prokokiev's film scores, etc).
I found the use of the Schubert Ab Moment Musical in Au Revoir les
Enfants to be quite powerful

Robert
--
La grenouille songe..dans son château d'eau
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