Discussion:
Overrated masterpieces
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g***@gmail.com
2019-12-01 09:55:05 UTC
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https://www.indiewire.com/2013/03/the-criticwire-survey-overrated-masterpieces-128223/
moviePig
2019-12-01 15:22:03 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.indiewire.com/2013/03/the-criticwire-survey-overrated-masterpieces-128223/
Good read, if a bit long, expanding perspective on film criticism.
Michael OConnor
2019-12-01 20:02:51 UTC
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There's a part of me that always felt there should be three-year wait between the year a film is released, and the year it is eligible for the Academy Awards. What I am saying is that the Academy Awards that will be held in early 2020 should honor films and acting performances from the year 2016, if we're using a three-year wait. This way, it gives voters a sense of perspective to vote on movies or performances that have stood the test of time, or movies or performances that they might not have gotten to see during the film year, but in the ensuing three years, they would have been able to see just about every major film from the year in question and it would give them a better sense as to what the best films and best performances were. I think it would give better results than the movies and performances that generally win Oscars in the current way.
Your Name
2019-12-01 19:41:55 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.indiewire.com/2013/03/the-criticwire-survey-overrated-masterpieces-128223/
Pretty much all the so-called "Classic" / "must see" movies as well as
most of the award-winners are boring piles of dog poo ... they're
usually picked by arty-farty movie critics who have no connection with
the real-life public viewer.
Adam H. Kerman
2019-12-02 22:19:55 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.indiewire.com/2013/03/the-criticwire-survey-overrated-masterpieces-128223/
That is so funny. When I read Dancer in the Dark (2000), first thing
that came to mind was Rider on the Rain (1970), because a lot of
needlessly cruel things Marlene Jobart throughout the movie as well.

Funny, funny stuff on The Sound of Music. Do I like it? Depends on my
mood, I guess. The score is, of course, terrific, and "Edelweiss" is
ever more meloncholy knowing that it was the last song Hammerstein wrote.

Gotta agree with Chinatown, given that the alleged hero J.J. Gittes has
hurt every innocent person he interacted with and contributed to a worse
outcome for all. I don't think it's meant to be a comedy... Fabulous
Jerry Goldsmith score, supposedly written in a weekend.

The Graduate? Once you realize that Benjamin has treated Mrs. Robinson
like shit and that she's not the enemy (despite being from the previous
generation) and he can't possibly have spent enough time with Elaine to
have fallen so deeply in love with her, it's hard to root for the "hero".

Again: Simon and Garfunkle's music as the score is glorious.

To summarize my comments; The three movies I've mentioned are variations
on conventional stories that don't work for me, with wonderful music.
Steve L
2019-12-20 18:52:41 UTC
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On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 22:19:55 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The Graduate? Once you realize that Benjamin has treated Mrs. Robinson
like shit and that she's not the enemy (despite being from the previous
generation) and he can't possibly have spent enough time with Elaine to
have fallen so deeply in love with her, it's hard to root for the "hero".
Maybe it's just me, but I always thought that Benjamin was
intentionally an anti-hero, and that the ending was anything but
happy.
Bill Anderson
2019-12-22 20:49:06 UTC
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Post by Steve L
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 22:19:55 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The Graduate? Once you realize that Benjamin has treated Mrs. Robinson
like shit and that she's not the enemy (despite being from the previous
generation) and he can't possibly have spent enough time with Elaine to
have fallen so deeply in love with her, it's hard to root for the "hero".
Maybe it's just me, but I always thought that Benjamin was
intentionally an anti-hero, and that the ending was anything but
happy.
The ending isn't at all happy -- you got that right.

Mrs. Robinson is a miserable, messed-up monster who got what she
deserved. Benjamin is an aimless, clueless, miserable overachiever who
has has arrived at adulthood and has no idea where to go from here
(though the sex is nice). He was raised in a milieu of equally
miserable, clueless adults who have found aims in life that have brought
them no happiness or even satisfaction. His decision to pursue Elaine
was based less on true love than on a desire to strike out at Mrs.
Robinson. And when he'd successfully humiliated her and settled into the
back seat of the bus with Elaine, he finally had his epiphany: he was on
the same road to misery as every adult he had ever known.

There are no heroes in this cynical you can't trust anybody over 30
movie, anti or otherwise.
--
Bill Anderson

I am the Mighty Favog
moviePig
2019-12-22 21:38:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Anderson
Post by Steve L
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 22:19:55 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The Graduate? Once you realize that Benjamin has treated Mrs. Robinson
like shit and that she's not the enemy (despite being from the previous
generation) and he can't possibly have spent enough time with Elaine to
have fallen so deeply in love with her, it's hard to root for the "hero".
Maybe it's just me, but I always thought that Benjamin was
intentionally an anti-hero, and that the ending was anything but
happy.
The ending isn't at all happy -- you got that right.
Mrs. Robinson is a miserable, messed-up monster who got what she
deserved. Benjamin is an aimless, clueless, miserable overachiever who
has has arrived at adulthood and has no idea where to go from here
(though the sex is nice). He was raised in a milieu of equally
miserable, clueless adults who have found aims in life that have brought
them no happiness or even satisfaction. His decision to pursue Elaine
was based less on true love than on a desire to strike out at Mrs.
Robinson. And when he'd successfully humiliated her and settled into the
back seat of the bus with Elaine, he finally had his epiphany: he was on
the same road to misery as every adult he had ever known.
There are no heroes in this cynical you can't trust anybody over 30
movie, anti or otherwise.
Fwiw, I thought that, sitting in the back of a random bus, he was more
at sea than he was destined to reenter a rat race like the one behind
him. It wasn't a happy ending, but neither was it doom merely postponed
(...even if you're right about his poor chances statistically).
g***@gmail.com
2019-12-23 05:34:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by moviePig
Post by Bill Anderson
Post by Steve L
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 22:19:55 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The Graduate? Once you realize that Benjamin has treated Mrs. Robinson
like shit and that she's not the enemy (despite being from the previous
generation) and he can't possibly have spent enough time with Elaine to
have fallen so deeply in love with her, it's hard to root for the "hero".
Maybe it's just me, but I always thought that Benjamin was
intentionally an anti-hero, and that the ending was anything but
happy.
The ending isn't at all happy -- you got that right.
Mrs. Robinson is a miserable, messed-up monster who got what she
deserved. Benjamin is an aimless, clueless, miserable overachiever who
has has arrived at adulthood and has no idea where to go from here
(though the sex is nice). He was raised in a milieu of equally
miserable, clueless adults who have found aims in life that have brought
them no happiness or even satisfaction. His decision to pursue Elaine
was based less on true love than on a desire to strike out at Mrs.
Robinson. And when he'd successfully humiliated her and settled into the
back seat of the bus with Elaine, he finally had his epiphany: he was on
the same road to misery as every adult he had ever known.
There are no heroes in this cynical you can't trust anybody over 30
movie, anti or otherwise.
Fwiw, I thought that, sitting in the back of a random bus, he was more
at sea than he was destined to reenter a rat race like the one behind
him. It wasn't a happy ending, but neither was it doom merely postponed
(...even if you're right about his poor chances statistically).
According to this:

- Modern[when?] critics continue to praise the film, if not always with the same ardor. For the film's thirtieth anniversary reissue, Ebert retracted some of his previous praise for the film, noting that he felt its time had passed and that he now had more sympathy for Mrs. Robinson than Benjamin (whom he considered "an insufferable creep"), viewing one's sympathy for Mrs. Robinson and disdainful attitude toward Ben as a function of aging and wisdom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Graduate#Critical_response
g***@gmail.com
2020-01-09 18:59:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve L
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 22:19:55 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The Graduate? Once you realize that Benjamin has treated Mrs. Robinson
like shit and that she's not the enemy (despite being from the previous
generation) and he can't possibly have spent enough time with Elaine to
have fallen so deeply in love with her, it's hard to root for the "hero".
Maybe it's just me, but I always thought that Benjamin was
intentionally an anti-hero, and that the ending was anything but
happy.
- We all were there for the readings, the screen tests, and we knew. We knew Dustin was the guy right away.

Buck Henry: 1930 - 2020
g***@gmail.com
2020-01-09 20:34:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by Steve L
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 22:19:55 -0000 (UTC), "Adam H. Kerman"
Post by Adam H. Kerman
The Graduate? Once you realize that Benjamin has treated Mrs. Robinson
like shit and that she's not the enemy (despite being from the previous
generation) and he can't possibly have spent enough time with Elaine to
have fallen so deeply in love with her, it's hard to root for the "hero".
Maybe it's just me, but I always thought that Benjamin was
intentionally an anti-hero, and that the ending was anything but
happy.
- We all were there for the readings, the screen tests, and we knew. We knew Dustin was the guy right away.
Buck Henry: 1930 - 2020
Casting Hoffman in "The Graduate":

https://www.amc.com/talk/2008/04/dustin-hoffman-the-graduate

hector
2019-12-03 13:34:32 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.indiewire.com/2013/03/the-criticwire-survey-overrated-masterpieces-128223/
As opposed to under rated piles of crap.
JTEM
2019-12-25 05:47:45 UTC
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Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.indiewire.com/2013/03/the-criticwire-survey-overrated-masterpieces-128223/
Anyone who pans It's A Wonderful Life is a degenerate.

My personal choice: Saturday Night FeverIt was massive in it's
day, but entirely forgotten since.

I sort of agree about 8 1/2. It has it's moments but All That Jazz
is practically the same story only it's far more entertaining, and
it even beats 8 1/2 in the "artsy" department...

Star Wars is a bad movie BUT it's a super influential film. It
changed SciFi forever. It changed cinema forever! Star Wars
solidified the Hollywood blockbuster model and the
merchandising.







-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/189853133503
g***@gmail.com
2019-12-25 07:52:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.indiewire.com/2013/03/the-criticwire-survey-overrated-masterpieces-128223/
Anyone who pans It's A Wonderful Life is a degenerate.
My personal choice: Saturday Night FeverIt was massive in it's
day, but entirely forgotten since.
I sort of agree about 8 1/2. It has it's moments but All That Jazz
is practically the same story only it's far more entertaining, and
it even beats 8 1/2 in the "artsy" department...
Star Wars is a bad movie BUT it's a super influential film. It
changed SciFi forever. It changed cinema forever! Star Wars
solidified the Hollywood blockbuster model and the
merchandising.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/189853133503
When it first came out, it didn't receive overwhelmingly positive reviews:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_Wonderful_Life#Critical_response
Your Name
2019-12-25 08:56:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by g***@gmail.com
Post by JTEM
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.indiewire.com/2013/03/the-criticwire-survey-overrated-masterpieces-128223/
Anyone who pans It's A Wonderful Life is a degenerate.
My personal choice: Saturday Night FeverIt was massive in it's
day, but entirely forgotten since.
I sort of agree about 8 1/2. It has it's moments but All That Jazz
is practically the same story only it's far more entertaining, and
it even beats 8 1/2 in the "artsy" department...
Star Wars is a bad movie BUT it's a super influential film. It
changed SciFi forever. It changed cinema forever! Star Wars
solidified the Hollywood blockbuster model and the
merchandising.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/189853133503
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It's_a_Wonderful_Life#Critical_response
It's boring crap ... so the professional critics should have loved it.
JTEM
2019-12-25 19:22:12 UTC
Permalink
It's
The opinions of trolls are irrelevant.





-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/189853133503
g***@gmail.com
2019-12-25 20:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by JTEM
Post by g***@gmail.com
https://www.indiewire.com/2013/03/the-criticwire-survey-overrated-masterpieces-128223/
Anyone who pans It's A Wonderful Life is a degenerate.
My personal choice: Saturday Night FeverIt was massive in it's
day, but entirely forgotten since.
I sort of agree about 8 1/2. It has it's moments but All That Jazz
is practically the same story only it's far more entertaining, and
it even beats 8 1/2 in the "artsy" department...
Star Wars is a bad movie BUT it's a super influential film. It
changed SciFi forever. It changed cinema forever! Star Wars
solidified the Hollywood blockbuster model and the
merchandising.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/189853133503
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/i-blame-star-wars-for-science-fiction-s-downfall-1.2903972
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